Can a company keep growing and still cut emissions
Caroline Merrell, senior director of sustainable winemaking at Jackson Family Wines, shares how her company set a science-based climate target, the challenges of reducing emissions in a growing business, and the actions working now such as using less glass in wine bottles, installing solar on farms, and looking at supply chain emissions.
Take action at work with SHIFT’s science based targets guide: https://jointheshift.earth/climate-actions/work-sbt
Subscribe or follow Climate Actually right here on this platform to catch every episode.
Funding for the first two seasons of Climate Actually comes from Formas, the Swedish Research Council for Sustainable Development, Communications Grant #2021-02906.
For more information and resources in this episode, go to climateactually.com.
Resources
International Wineries for Climate Action (IWCA) is a global group of wineries working to decarbonise the wine industry.
Source: IWCA
Rooted for Good is Jackson Family Wines' climate action plan, launched in 2021.
Source: Jackson Family Wines
The scientific consensus is that global emissions need to be cut in half by 2030 to avoid the worst impacts of climate change.
Source: SBTi
The Science Based Targets initiative (SBTi) sets out a 3-step process for companies.
Source: SBTi
IWCA's emissions calculator, built for the wine industry, helps companies measure emissions and simplifies the reporting process.
Source: IWCA
Jackson Family Wines plans to cut its carbon emissions in half by 2030.
Source: Jackson Family Wines
IWCA members, including Jackson Family Wines, report both absolute emissions and emissions intensity.
Source: IWCA
Jackson Family Wines' reported 2015 baseline emissions have changed between reports, and are now about 19% higher than the lowest figure previously reported.
Source: IWCA and the 2022 annual report
Jackson Family Wines' emissions are rising.
Source: IWCA
IWCA's breakdown of Scope 1, 2 and 3 emissions for the wine industry.
Source: IWCA
Packaging is the biggest source of emissions at Jackson Family Wines, making up about 27% of emissions last year.
Source: IWCA
Alternatives to glass, such as bag-in-box or aluminium cans, are lighter weight and lower-emission wine packaging options.
Source: Systembolaget
Across IWCA members, packaging is the single biggest source of emissions in wine production, unusual for food and drink, where packaging is normally a small share of the total.
Source: IWCA
Jackson Family Wines is moving towards renewable diesel for its tractors and fleet vehicles, now at about 47% renewable diesel.
Source: IWCA
Kim's master's research on soil carbon sequestration.
Source: Nicholas
Kim's 2024 study on regenerative viticulture.
Source: Nicholas et al.
Molly Sheppard of Spottswoode Winery, speaking at a wine industry conference, on how one company's Scope 3 emissions are another's Scope 1.
Source: We Can Fix It
Speaker:
We want our farms to be resilient to all the
Speaker:
changes that we've experienced, that's gotten more intense over even
Speaker:
the last 10 years, kind of watching these heat domes
Speaker:
and drought and fire impact our operations.
Speaker:
This is the first time that my executive producer and
Speaker:
I have made a spreadsheet to inform this podcast episode.
Speaker:
I chose to study wine because it's climate change that
Speaker:
you can taste.
Speaker:
If you take care of the land, it will take
Speaker:
care of you.
Speaker:
Well, Caroline Merrell, thank you so much for joining us
Speaker:
to talk about climate action in the wine industry, a
Speaker:
topic near and dear to my heart.
Speaker:
We're going to get into some nitty gritty details of
Speaker:
climate action today. I think this is the first time
Speaker:
that my executive producer and I have made a spreadsheet
Speaker:
to inform this podcast episode, but we can start with
Speaker:
the big picture. So could you please introduce yourself, tell
Speaker:
us a little bit about your journey and about Jackson
Speaker:
Family Wines in the big picture, who the company is
Speaker:
and how they got started.
Speaker:
Yeah, absolutely. Well, first off, thank you for having me
Speaker:
today. So I have been with Jackson Family Wines for
Speaker:
about 8 years. I started in the wine industry on
Speaker:
kind of the wine quality side.
Speaker:
So I've worked really in production for the first 7
Speaker:
years of my career at Jackson Family.
Speaker:
And I joined our sustainability team about a year ago.
Speaker:
And so I know that that may sound like a
Speaker:
big jump, but really everything that we're doing on the
Speaker:
sustainability side, we're trying to make sure that our wine
Speaker:
quality is preserved, or in some cases, enhanced.
Speaker:
And so really, the way that I approach sustainability is
Speaker:
just trying to make sure that we're making our process
Speaker:
more efficient. We're doing everything we can to advance the
Speaker:
company with sustainability, but then also keep our product quality
Speaker:
high. Right, so Jackson Family Wines, just to take a
Speaker:
step back, sustainability has always really been kind of rooted
Speaker:
in our ethos as a company.
Speaker:
And that really stems from the fact that we are,
Speaker:
at our heart, a farming and land based company.
Speaker:
In order to make wine, you have to have vineyards
Speaker:
and you have to grow the grapes.
Speaker:
And so our founder, Jess, always used to say, you
Speaker:
know, if you take care of the land, it will
Speaker:
take care of you. And so that has always really
Speaker:
been the family value and something that has been kind
Speaker:
of integral to the company. But about 10 years ago
Speaker:
or so, the company started taking steps to formalise our
Speaker:
climate action. And so where that really started was working
Speaker:
to certify all of our estate vineyards, so the vineyards
Speaker:
that we own, and our wineries, with third party sustainability
Speaker:
certifications. So once we got through certifying all of our
Speaker:
wineries and vineyards, the next step really for the family
Speaker:
was, what's next? What can we do to really advance
Speaker:
our sustainability efforts? And that is when Katie Jackson co-founded
Speaker:
International Wineries for Climate Action with Familia Torres in Spain,
Speaker:
which is a global group of wineries looking to decarbonise
Speaker:
the wine industry. And then out of that, that is
Speaker:
where we do annual greenhouse gas emission inventory for our
Speaker:
company. And then, from kind of the evolution of doing
Speaker:
those inventories, that's when we launched our Rooted for Good,
Speaker:
which is our sustainability, kind of climate action plan, that
Speaker:
was launched in 2021. And that had kind of our
Speaker:
emission reduction goals built into it, as well as goals
Speaker:
around how we farm, how we conserve water, and how
Speaker:
we take care of our people with social equity.
Speaker:
Great, okay, you covered a lot of ground there.
Speaker:
We're going to bring in more, as director of sustainable
Speaker:
winemaking you have a lot under your responsibility, but today
Speaker:
we'll focus on the climate piece.
Speaker:
So specifically greenhouse gas emissions, and what you're doing to
Speaker:
reduce them and what other companies can learn from what
Speaker:
you're doing. So maybe just quickly to start with the
Speaker:
facts, as you know, we, humanity, is in a race
Speaker:
to stop adding carbon pollution, CO2, to the atmosphere as
Speaker:
fast as possible. And that's necessary to stop climate warming.
Speaker:
The scientific agreement is that we need to cut emissions
Speaker:
in half globally before 2030 to avoid the worst impacts
Speaker:
of climate change. Businesses, of course, have an important role
Speaker:
to play in that. In our SHIFT guide, the high
Speaker:
impact action climate guide that we've developed, professional is one
Speaker:
of the most powerful superpowers for climate, and the highest
Speaker:
impact action under that role is to follow science based
Speaker:
targets. So I want to dig into that a little
Speaker:
bit. And the Science Based Targets initiative really has three
Speaker:
steps, if you boil it down: it's first, understand where
Speaker:
your company's emissions come from; set a science based target
Speaker:
to cut emissions in half; and then actually do the
Speaker:
work to cut those emissions. So I want to hear
Speaker:
from your experience, what has it been like for Jackson
Speaker:
Family Wines? How did you first figure out where your
Speaker:
emissions are coming from, where your climate pollution comes from
Speaker:
across the whole value chain? What was that process like?
Speaker:
Yeah, absolutely. So I think anyone who has done an
Speaker:
emissions inventory knows that they are very complicated.
Speaker:
When you think about just the business and every aspect
Speaker:
that you have to consider, it is a lot.
Speaker:
And so we started calculating that through International Wineries for
Speaker:
Climate Action. So when IWCA was formed, one of their
Speaker:
first initiatives was to create a calculator specific to the
Speaker:
wine industry that would help companies calculate their emissions and
Speaker:
try to help simplify that process Many companies in the
Speaker:
wine industry are small, and so they don't have dedicated
Speaker:
sustainability teams. And so you really need a tool that's
Speaker:
available, free and available to people to be able to
Speaker:
start calculating that. So that IWCA calculator is still free
Speaker:
and available to anyone who wants to download it.
Speaker:
And it's very helpful because it's very specific to the
Speaker:
wine industry and it helps calculate emission factors.
Speaker:
So basically, when we grow a ton of grapes, we,
Speaker:
as a company, we put in a lot of our
Speaker:
inputs, like the fuel it takes our tractors to drive
Speaker:
down the vineyard. But if you're a company, a smaller
Speaker:
company that is maybe buying your grapes and you don't
Speaker:
know how much fuel that takes, the calculator helps just
Speaker:
kind of clarify some of that for you, to help
Speaker:
simplify the process. So it's still a very involved process.
Speaker:
There's, I think, about 20 tabs on that calculator, but
Speaker:
it does help you kind of get into starting to
Speaker:
learn what your emissions are, so you can start to target them.
Speaker:
That's great. I've actually used that calculator with my students
Speaker:
in a climate footprinting exercise.
Speaker:
Wonderful.
Speaker:
Yeah, it's nice that you make it available.
Speaker:
So then you got a handle on where your emissions
Speaker:
are coming from, and later we can dive in deeper
Speaker:
to exactly what that is and the specific actions you're
Speaker:
taking to reduce them, like packaging and so on, but
Speaker:
still kind of at the big picture level.
Speaker:
How did you go about setting a target?
Speaker:
So, you know, you say on your website you have
Speaker:
a plan to cut your carbon emissions in half by
Speaker:
2030? That's in line with what science says is necessary.
Speaker:
How did you set that science based target?
Speaker:
How did you come up with that?
Speaker:
We did. We tried to align to the SBTi, the
Speaker:
Science Based Targets initiative, as much as we possibly can,
Speaker:
as well as the UN Race to Zero, which is
Speaker:
what IWCA is aligned with. And that really just came
Speaker:
from wanting to align with the science and setting goals
Speaker:
that were internationally recognised as what needed to be done
Speaker:
across the world. So we wanted our targets to be
Speaker:
credible. We wanted them to be third party verified, and
Speaker:
we want to really take probably the most ambitious and
Speaker:
aggressive tack that we can to decarbonise our industry.
Speaker:
Great, okay, so now on the third step, you've measured
Speaker:
emissions, you've set a target, and now you're in the
Speaker:
process of actually reducing emissions, which is really hard work.
Speaker:
And I really appreciate, in your climate reports from the
Speaker:
International Wineries for Climate Action, that many wineries, including you,
Speaker:
report both absolute emissions and emissions intensity.
Speaker:
Both of those measures are used within the industry.
Speaker:
As you know, absolute emissions are the total tons of
Speaker:
climate pollution for everything you do as a business, and
Speaker:
that's what has to get to zero to stop warming,
Speaker:
that's what the climate really cares about.
Speaker:
A measure that can be important for business, that measures
Speaker:
intensity, is about efficiency, so how much pollution per bottle
Speaker:
of wine, for example. And that can be important for
Speaker:
your bottom line. But even if each bottle gets a
Speaker:
little bit cleaner, if you're making more and more bottles,
Speaker:
the total pollution can still go up.
Speaker:
And that's what we're kind of fighting with to really
Speaker:
make a difference and move the needle on reducing emissions.
Speaker:
So when I looked at your absolute total emissions reporting,
Speaker:
I found that they've been going up by 31%.
Speaker:
But the intensity is going down, and I think that's
Speaker:
a very common trend across businesses and across industries.
Speaker:
So I wanted to hear about the challenges you're facing
Speaker:
in bringing absolute emissions down.
Speaker:
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you really hit on it, right?
Speaker:
We're a growing business, we're trying to make more wine
Speaker:
and sell more wine. And so our emissions have been
Speaker:
going up over the last few years.
Speaker:
I think another thing to note that's important with the
Speaker:
wine industry is that, because we are really a farming
Speaker:
based industry, we have a lot of natural variation year
Speaker:
over year on our yields. So how much fruit our
Speaker:
vineyards produce changes every year, based on the climate, on
Speaker:
growing conditions, and really just the weather throughout the year.
Speaker:
So we also see, we have been seeing increases, and
Speaker:
a lot of that is just due to increased production
Speaker:
volume. But we also see just some bounce in our
Speaker:
annual emissions inventory just due to those natural variations in
Speaker:
the growing season. When you think about efficiencies, right, that
Speaker:
the emissions intensity, per bottle, it takes a tractor the
Speaker:
same amount of diesel for us to do a mowing
Speaker:
pass in a vineyard, whether there's 1 ton of fruit
Speaker:
on that vine or if there's, you know, 5 tons
Speaker:
per acre. And so we really do, we start to
Speaker:
see efficiencies when you have really high yielding natural years.
Speaker:
But that's not something really in our control, that's nature
Speaker:
just giving us different fruit levels every year.
Speaker:
So we have kind of 2 things to manage, and
Speaker:
that's just the nature aspect, and then also growing as
Speaker:
a business. But I think all of the steps that
Speaker:
we are making are what are decreasing that emissions intensity,
Speaker:
so our per bottle, and that's really where you get,
Speaker:
like you said, those efficiencies that we're seeing.
Speaker:
Okay, that's helpful. And I wonder how the natural variation,
Speaker:
or other factors, play into another technical issue, which is
Speaker:
the baseline that you choose. So for a company or
Speaker:
a country to track their progress, they need to set
Speaker:
a starting point to say, okay, this is our starting
Speaker:
year, and we're going to measure, compare with this for
Speaker:
future progress, to measure reductions. So that's the baseline.
Speaker:
And the higher the baseline, it makes it easier, or
Speaker:
you're closer to meeting your climate target, because you're grading
Speaker:
yourself against your highest, or your worst emitting, year.
Speaker:
So I saw that the baseline that you reported for
Speaker:
your 2015 baseline year also changed between reports.
Speaker:
So that also got higher in the latest year, about
Speaker:
19 percent higher versus the lowest reported.
Speaker:
So can you tell me more and help me understand
Speaker:
what's driving the baseline change? Is it an update to
Speaker:
the way that you count things, or this variability, or something else?
Speaker:
Absolutely, yeah. I think you bring up a good point,
Speaker:
right? It's very challenging to choose what your baseline year
Speaker:
should be. And I think, in most cases, we try
Speaker:
to choose our most average of years.
Speaker:
But sometimes that can be challenging, especially if you are
Speaker:
growing, or if just your production volume is changing quite
Speaker:
a bit. So what we try to do is we
Speaker:
take our best guess at it about what would be
Speaker:
an average year. The reason our 2015 baseline year changed
Speaker:
for us is, just every year when we approach our
Speaker:
emissions inventory, we're trying to improve our process.
Speaker:
And when we first started, we were using very general
Speaker:
emission factors for things like glass, for example.
Speaker:
And then in 2024, we went back to our glass
Speaker:
manufacturers and said, can you help us understand your specific
Speaker:
emission factor related to the glass that we actually purchase?
Speaker:
And so what we found was that our emission factor
Speaker:
for glass that we're actually purchasing was higher than the
Speaker:
emission factor we used when we started doing inventories.
Speaker:
And so when we tried to compare back to 2015,
Speaker:
now we're using different methodology and different emission factors.
Speaker:
So we went back and we re-reported 2015, we did
Speaker:
that for a few different categories, just trying to see
Speaker:
if there's a way that we could improve our reporting
Speaker:
accuracy. And then we went back and just applied those
Speaker:
same emission factors to 2015. So that's where the restating
Speaker:
came from. I think we really take the approach of,
Speaker:
don't let perfect be the enemy of good, and continuously
Speaker:
improving what we're doing, and knowing that when we first
Speaker:
started doing our emissions inventories, we used what was available
Speaker:
to us. And we're continually working to improve just our methodology.
Speaker:
Okay, so it was learning more and getting more specific
Speaker:
data on one of your biggest supplier inputs that affects
Speaker:
your carbon footprint, which is the glass, which we'll talk
Speaker:
about more in a minute, that that actually was the
Speaker:
biggest reason. Interesting. Okay, if I sum up a little
Speaker:
bit, your emissions are going up, the absolute emissions, because
Speaker:
you're a growing business and you're producing more wine, which
Speaker:
is what you want to do as a business.
Speaker:
But what the climate needs us to do is to
Speaker:
reduce absolute emissions. And you have variability due to what
Speaker:
Mother Nature throws at us, because the yields can vary
Speaker:
quite a bit, and that affects intensity, emissions intensity, but
Speaker:
not absolute emissions necessarily. You've updated, as you learn more
Speaker:
and get better data, you've updated your baseline to better
Speaker:
reflect the best available knowledge, that in fact the glass
Speaker:
was higher than you initially thought.
Speaker:
And what would you say your main challenges are to reducing emissions?
Speaker:
I think we have a few, you know, it's never
Speaker:
just one thing that's making this challenging.
Speaker:
I think one of the things, when we first wrote
Speaker:
our 2030 goals in 2021, was we were very optimistic
Speaker:
about where technology was going in the next 10 years.
Speaker:
And one of those, one of probably the best examples
Speaker:
I could give, is electric tractors.
Speaker:
So in 2021, we had a plan to kind of
Speaker:
replace our tractor fleet with electric tractors.
Speaker:
And we started purchasing electric tractors.
Speaker:
And we very quickly realised that those tractors were not
Speaker:
yet ready for a commercial production environment.
Speaker:
It's very difficult for electric tractors to make it up
Speaker:
steep hills. It's very difficult for them to tow heavy
Speaker:
implements, like mowers, throughout the vineyards.
Speaker:
And our main manufacturer of electric tractors went out of
Speaker:
business this past year. And so it's, that's just one
Speaker:
example of ways where technology hasn't really come along with
Speaker:
us, but we did really rely on some more electrification
Speaker:
of fleet vehicles in our original plan.
Speaker:
I think we also, as with most companies, we struggle
Speaker:
with Scope 3, which is our supply chain emissions, those
Speaker:
are the emissions that we don't directly control, because in
Speaker:
a lot of ways we don't have direct control.
Speaker:
So we're working with our partners and we're trying to
Speaker:
build relationships on the best way forwards there.
Speaker:
Let's dive in a little more to the actions that
Speaker:
you're taking. Just for the listeners, I want to briefly
Speaker:
touch on what Scopes 1, 2, and 3 are, because
Speaker:
I think that will come up a lot, and International
Speaker:
Wineries for Climate Action has broken those out really nicely.
Speaker:
So for Scope 1, it's the direct emissions under a
Speaker:
company's control, so that would be like the vehicles you
Speaker:
own and emissions from the vineyards that you farm yourself.
Speaker:
Scope 2 is emissions from indirect and direct energy and
Speaker:
electricity use. And Scope 3 is both the supply chain,
Speaker:
so the inputs to making wine, and the consumer and
Speaker:
post-consumer, so everything that's out of your direct control, but
Speaker:
involves the production and sale and use of the wine.
Speaker:
Right, so we're on the same page, perfect.
Speaker:
Good, because then International Wineries for Climate Action breaks that
Speaker:
out really nicely, and you share the data that your
Speaker:
members have reported in the tool that you built.
Speaker:
And it's around 11% of total emissions for the average
Speaker:
winery in the latest report that come from Scope 1.
Speaker:
So those would be sort of the easiest to reduce,
Speaker:
the things that you have control over at home.
Speaker:
Scope 2 was around 4%, and Scope 3 was 85%.
Speaker:
So clearly the lion's share of emissions are those that
Speaker:
are some of the hardest for you to reduce.
Speaker:
And for the case of wine that is mostly from
Speaker:
suppliers and other industries, it can vary, but for wine
Speaker:
it's a lot of suppliers. So let's kind of talk
Speaker:
more specifically about, we've got these facts, what are the
Speaker:
actions that you're taking, especially for your biggest sources of
Speaker:
emissions, to try to reduce those, and what's been working?
Speaker:
So our biggest source of emissions is packaging, by far.
Speaker:
So I think for Jackson Family Wines that was about
Speaker:
27% of our emissions in the last year.
Speaker:
And the number one kind of subcomponent of that is
Speaker:
our glass bottles, because glass is very energy intensive to
Speaker:
make, it's heavy, so it takes a lot of fuel
Speaker:
to ship. Wine is also heavy.
Speaker:
So when you think about a glass bottle, your emissions
Speaker:
are counting when you make the bottle, it's also counting
Speaker:
when you ship the wine. And so the number one
Speaker:
thing that we've been doing with our packaging is just
Speaker:
trying to make everything lighter weight.
Speaker:
So there's no reason that a glass bottle needs to
Speaker:
be as heavy as it is.
Speaker:
I think over the years the wine industry has really
Speaker:
built this perception with consumers that a heavier bottle of
Speaker:
wine is higher quality, it should cost more money.
Speaker:
And so we're kind of fighting against consumer perception.
Speaker:
But there is nothing wrong with wine quality that relates
Speaker:
to how heavy your bottle is, it's really just perception.
Speaker:
And so we've been working really to reduce the weight,
Speaker:
and we've reduced our bottle weight by about 13 percent
Speaker:
over the last 5 to 10 years.
Speaker:
And we're really working to just drive that down even
Speaker:
more. And that is somewhere where IWCA is very useful,
Speaker:
because as we're trying to educate the consumer on the
Speaker:
bottle, weight has no impact on your wine quality, it's
Speaker:
very challenging as one company just to try to push
Speaker:
that message. But when you have an international group of
Speaker:
wineries that are all kind of working in the same
Speaker:
direction, then you see it more as an industry movement
Speaker:
to lighter weight glass. The consumer understands a little bit
Speaker:
better, and it's not just one company trying to sell a story.
Speaker:
Have you also looked at alternative packaging, like here in
Speaker:
Sweden, bag in box, or even aluminium cans or other
Speaker:
things are also popular and lighter weight and lower emissions
Speaker:
than glass bottles? Or is that not something that you've
Speaker:
wanted to pursue?
Speaker:
We have. So kind of the other wing of my
Speaker:
role manages a group called Winemaking Technical Services that looks
Speaker:
at those packages for the company.
Speaker:
And we have just launched our first wine in an
Speaker:
aluminium can this year. It's something that we started looking
Speaker:
at in 2018, but we have a lot of wine
Speaker:
quality challenges when moving into alternative packaging.
Speaker:
A glass bottle is inert, it's not going to react
Speaker:
with the wine, and then aluminium and bag in box,
Speaker:
you just have different quality aspects to keep in mind.
Speaker:
And they're not impossible, you just have to really approach
Speaker:
it knowing what those quality challenges are going into the
Speaker:
package, make a specific wine for that package, and really
Speaker:
handle your supply chain logistics closely, so that, the main
Speaker:
issue with bag in box and aluminium cans is that
Speaker:
their shelf life is shorter than glass bottles.
Speaker:
And so you have to just be very careful on
Speaker:
the logistics part of it, to make sure that you're
Speaker:
managing that, so the wine quality stays high.
Speaker:
So I think that it's something that we're absolutely pursuing,
Speaker:
it's just something that we are making sure that we're
Speaker:
very aware of the challenges going into it.
Speaker:
And so we tend to be a little bit slower to market.
Speaker:
Right, with the average data for the members of the
Speaker:
International Wineries for Climate Action, packaging was number one, the
Speaker:
biggest source of emissions for wine production, which is unusual
Speaker:
in food, usually packaging is a very small piece of
Speaker:
food, but for wine, because of those glass bottles and
Speaker:
the liquid nature of the product, as you said, it's
Speaker:
number one. But the other two big ones were farming
Speaker:
and transport, each of those were close to 20 percent
Speaker:
on average. I don't know exactly how it breaks down
Speaker:
for you, but are you finding those are your other
Speaker:
big challenge areas, and what's working for you to reduce emissions there?
Speaker:
Absolutely, yeah. Farming, when you think about it, it's most
Speaker:
of our Scope 1 emissions, so the emissions that we
Speaker:
directly control go directly to our farms.
Speaker:
And a lot of that is the diesel that goes
Speaker:
into the tractors. And so, I think one of the
Speaker:
challenges that we have there is that electrification of tractors
Speaker:
and fleet vehicles has been a little slow.
Speaker:
So what we've done, kind of as an iterative step,
Speaker:
is move towards renewable diesel for all of our tractors
Speaker:
and fleet vehicles. We're at about 47% renewable diesel in
Speaker:
our fleet. And really a lot of that is just
Speaker:
supplier availability, we've told our suppliers we want exclusively renewable
Speaker:
diesel, but if it's not available, we do still have
Speaker:
to buy diesel. And I think that our approach to
Speaker:
renewable diesel is, it's a small step forward, it's not
Speaker:
what we need to be doing long term, but it's
Speaker:
what's available to us right now, is the next step forward.
Speaker:
And what about, oh, sorry to interrupt, but I'm just
Speaker:
thinking about the purchased grapes, not just the land you
Speaker:
farm, because that was a relatively small part of average
Speaker:
emissions, but the purchased grapes was a big chunk, and
Speaker:
there I think it includes not just the diesel, but
Speaker:
the land use emissions and other things.
Speaker:
Is that true for you as well?
Speaker:
Yeah, that's a great point. Yeah, so we do account
Speaker:
for, like, soil and fertiliser emissions, and then purchased grapes,
Speaker:
basically the way that our accounting works is, for anything
Speaker:
that we own, we would account for the diesel separately,
Speaker:
the soil and the fertiliser separately.
Speaker:
And then for purchased grapes, that kind of rolls up
Speaker:
into one emission factor. And so if we are buying
Speaker:
grapes from a third party, it's accounting for all of
Speaker:
those factors, and can be quite large.
Speaker:
And so that is similar to some of our distribution
Speaker:
challenges that we have, where we don't have direct control
Speaker:
over anyone else's farming practices if we're just purchasing the
Speaker:
grapes. So that can be one of our more challenging
Speaker:
Scope 3 initiatives.
Speaker:
Yeah, so how do you work with suppliers, whether it's
Speaker:
electric tractors that go out of business, unfortunately, or your
Speaker:
grape suppliers, to encourage and bring them along with you?
Speaker:
You said you require them to use renewable diesel, but
Speaker:
then if that's not available, you don't have much choice.
Speaker:
So what's the solution to the chicken and egg problem there?
Speaker:
One of the things that we started doing a few
Speaker:
years ago was incentivising our growers to grow grapes and
Speaker:
have kind of certified sustainable farming practices.
Speaker:
And so we offer an incentive, if they do that,
Speaker:
and higher pricing, that we will pay for those grapes.
Speaker:
And so that is kind of the way that we've
Speaker:
really worked with our third party farmers to help bring
Speaker:
them along, it's just by offering to pay more for
Speaker:
their grapes. I think on some of the distribution, like
Speaker:
the product distribution challenges that we have, that can be
Speaker:
a little bit more challenging, because the distributors that we
Speaker:
work with, they're also subject to the infrastructure of what's
Speaker:
around them. So if we're talking about electric semis, that
Speaker:
have not, we're not there quite yet.
Speaker:
But then when you talk about charging infrastructure, if you
Speaker:
are encouraging suppliers to use electric vehicles to distribute your
Speaker:
product, they have to have the infrastructure that's around them.
Speaker:
And so that can be, it's challenging, because it's out
Speaker:
of our control, and sometimes it's out of their control
Speaker:
as well. So it's really just working with our suppliers
Speaker:
to understand and try to help incentivise where we can.
Speaker:
And then what about transport? So there's three biggest areas,
Speaker:
again, packaging was about 30%, farming, both of your own
Speaker:
and others' grapes, around 20%, and 17% for transport, on
Speaker:
average. So together those are the biggest pieces, about two-thirds
Speaker:
of emissions. So if you're trying to cut emissions in
Speaker:
half, you've got to tackle those.
Speaker:
What about the transport, what do you do now for
Speaker:
transport of your wines, and then what does it need
Speaker:
to be, to reduce those emissions?
Speaker:
Yeah, so that transport is definitely one of our most
Speaker:
challenging areas to tackle. And I think, in wine and
Speaker:
also just in alcohol in general, we use what's called
Speaker:
a 3 tier system. So as a producer, we don't
Speaker:
sell directly to restaurants or grocery stores, we use a
Speaker:
distributor. So we sell to a distributor, and then the
Speaker:
distributor sells into those accounts. So what can be really
Speaker:
challenging is that we can control really how our wine
Speaker:
gets to the distributor, but then once it's in the
Speaker:
distributor, we don't have control of how it's getting to
Speaker:
those accounts. And so what we've really tried to do
Speaker:
is encourage our distributors to use rail transport.
Speaker:
And our main case-good warehouse is on a rail line.
Speaker:
But one of the challenges there is that then the
Speaker:
distributor has to have a warehouse on a rail line
Speaker:
in order to receive those trains.
Speaker:
And then from there, we're using a lot of intermodal
Speaker:
transport, which basically means you have 2 types of transportation,
Speaker:
you have rail transportation, and then once it gets to
Speaker:
a rail warehouse, then it gets picked up by a
Speaker:
truck. And so we're really trying to work with our
Speaker:
distributors, some of that is scheduling and timing, rail is
Speaker:
slower than trucks, and so if you can place your
Speaker:
order a little bit earlier, so that you have time
Speaker:
to get it on a train, rather than just driving
Speaker:
it with a truck. But a lot of that is
Speaker:
really just understanding the logistics of what's available to our
Speaker:
distributors, do they have access to this infrastructure, and then
Speaker:
working with them on some of the other logistical pieces
Speaker:
to try to make that all work and encourage them
Speaker:
to move in that direction.
Speaker:
Right, so a tricky question, how can you plan your
Speaker:
business growth to align with cutting emissions in half?
Speaker:
That is a great question. I think, as we dig
Speaker:
into the data, one of the things that I see
Speaker:
is that things that make businesses more efficient also make
Speaker:
our emissions more efficient. So if you're using less electricity
Speaker:
per bottle, you're using your wineries to their full capacity
Speaker:
in terms of what's the total production volume that could
Speaker:
fit in a single facility, that's going to make your
Speaker:
business more efficient. It's also going to make your emissions
Speaker:
more efficient, because you're already cooling that winery, and so
Speaker:
if you put more wine in it, it does increase
Speaker:
the cooling demand a little bit, but it does make
Speaker:
things more efficient. And so I think that's a really
Speaker:
challenging problem to try to solve, but just looking for
Speaker:
ways that we can be more efficient in the way
Speaker:
that we are bringing more volume in and growing our business.
Speaker:
But it does seem tough, if you're aiming to cut
Speaker:
your total emissions in half by 2030, and so far
Speaker:
they have been increasing in absolute numbers, because production is
Speaker:
going up, and because the inputs are more emission, higher
Speaker:
emission, than you initially thought. How do you get to those goals?
Speaker:
Yeah, I think one of the areas that's very exciting,
Speaker:
I think for us in the wine industry, is that
Speaker:
because we are a land based, farming based sector, we
Speaker:
have the land available to us as a solution.
Speaker:
And so one of the things that's very exciting to
Speaker:
me is just the prospect of soil carbon sequestration, which
Speaker:
basically is just adding that CO2 back into our land
Speaker:
and sequestering it into the carbon.
Speaker:
And we know that there are certain farming practices that
Speaker:
allow us to do this more efficiently, and we've started
Speaker:
to move towards those practices. There's a lot of complexity
Speaker:
around how you account for that carbon in the ground.
Speaker:
So with vineyards, they tend to be very large, and
Speaker:
you tend to have variable soil carbon starting out across
Speaker:
your vineyard. And then when you make changes to farming
Speaker:
practices, those changes tend to be small, but because you're
Speaker:
doing them over large farmland, they add up.
Speaker:
And so if you have a lot of natural variability,
Speaker:
and then you're doing something that makes a small change,
Speaker:
it can be hard to capture that in data.
Speaker:
And so that's where we've really, we're still working on
Speaker:
those plans, on how to best account for that, how
Speaker:
to best increase our soil carbon.
Speaker:
But I think that's really one of the most exciting
Speaker:
ways forward, is just using the land as a resource
Speaker:
to us, and how do we get more efficient at
Speaker:
trapping carbon in the soil.
Speaker:
I started studying soil carbon sequestration in 2001, that was
Speaker:
what my master's degree was on.
Speaker:
And then, after that study, I said, this is too
Speaker:
complicated. But it is coming back around, and in 2024
Speaker:
we published a study on regenerative viticulture, so practices that
Speaker:
increase soil carbon storage in vineyards in particular.
Speaker:
And there's more and more research coming out showing that
Speaker:
the farming practices that you do, like integrating animals, or
Speaker:
avoiding tilling, or planting certain cover crops, can help increase
Speaker:
carbon in the soils. But I think it doesn't get
Speaker:
us around, that's important and necessary and beneficial, but it
Speaker:
doesn't get us around the need to reduce emissions, which
Speaker:
is the tough part that I think a lot of
Speaker:
businesses are running into. I was wondering a little more
Speaker:
about the International Wineries for Climate Action, and how you
Speaker:
bring a whole industry along with you, because that's something
Speaker:
that I think is really interesting about the work that
Speaker:
you're doing. And we talked a lot about your own
Speaker:
emissions, both that you control directly and from your supply
Speaker:
chain, which is tougher. I really love something that Molly
Speaker:
Sheppard from Spottswoode Winery said at a wine conference I
Speaker:
went to, that your Scope 3 emissions are somebody else's
Speaker:
Scope 1. So there is this whole industry, in any
Speaker:
business you have suppliers, you have customers, these are other
Speaker:
people and organisations that you can connect and work with
Speaker:
and try to collaborate and bring along with you.
Speaker:
So tell me more about International Wineries for Climate Action,
Speaker:
how that works and what the goals are and what
Speaker:
the progress has been like.
Speaker:
Yeah, absolutely. So International Wineries for Climate Action, it's now
Speaker:
7 years old, 8 years old.
Speaker:
And really what it is, is this global group of
Speaker:
wineries trying to drive action in the wine industry.
Speaker:
And I think that that can be helpful, because if
Speaker:
you're any one business trying to encourage a supplier to
Speaker:
make a change in their Scope 1 emissions, that would
Speaker:
ultimately become our Scope 3 emissions, it's challenging to do
Speaker:
that as one single company. But if you are a
Speaker:
global group of wineries that are all going to purchase
Speaker:
that same product and want to see that change happen,
Speaker:
you increase your buying power, kind of by grouping together
Speaker:
and trying to push for change together.
Speaker:
So the goal of that group is really to encourage
Speaker:
wineries to decarbonise. But through the power of that global
Speaker:
group, we're able to, number one, share ideas with each
Speaker:
other on what's worked for us and what's worked for
Speaker:
our industries, but then also help drive change with our
Speaker:
suppliers, or some of that consumer education, like I was
Speaker:
talking about earlier with, the global wine industry is going
Speaker:
to make this change, it's not just one person, come
Speaker:
along with us.
Speaker:
Does that ever involve talking with governments?
Speaker:
I mean, you mentioned earlier the limitation of charging infrastructure.
Speaker:
You're a big business in California and in the US,
Speaker:
one of the bigger wine companies in the US.
Speaker:
So that gives you a certain amount of potential leverage
Speaker:
to communicate what you need to regulators and those who
Speaker:
could help make that happen. Is that part of your climate agenda?
Speaker:
It is. It's, that is a portion of the climate
Speaker:
agenda that does not run through my team directly, but
Speaker:
it is something that we are always working on, is
Speaker:
speaking with local government and our legislators, to try to
Speaker:
drive action as well. And I know, you're in Europe,
Speaker:
right, so there's a lot more regulations in Europe that
Speaker:
are coming along, that I think we are actually starting
Speaker:
to learn from in the United States as well, whether
Speaker:
that be at the government level or even just watching
Speaker:
what regulations are happening in Europe and kind of trying
Speaker:
to learn from them as an individual producer as well,
Speaker:
especially around climate. So I think that that has been
Speaker:
very helpful, especially with IWCA, talking with wineries in Europe
Speaker:
about some of the challenges that they are facing and
Speaker:
how their governments are responding.
Speaker:
That leads me to wonder how other, not just wineries,
Speaker:
but other businesses, can learn from what you've done so
Speaker:
far. For businesses that also want to get serious about
Speaker:
reducing emissions, what can they take from Jackson Family Wines'
Speaker:
work, and the network you've built with International Wineries for
Speaker:
Climate Action, of what really works to move the needle
Speaker:
and start mobilising to really reduce emissions?
Speaker:
Yeah, it's a great point. I think collaborating with other
Speaker:
companies in your industry is a great place to start.
Speaker:
Even just having conversations about what has worked for other
Speaker:
people in terms of making steps forward.
Speaker:
I think that's one of the things I enjoy the
Speaker:
most about IWCA, is even just, having local events in
Speaker:
California with the other wineries that are a part of
Speaker:
the organisation, I learn about how are they handling some
Speaker:
of their more obscure recycling, for instance, right, like when
Speaker:
you put a label on a bottle, that label comes
Speaker:
on a plastic sheet, and that is non-traditional recycling, it
Speaker:
won't be accepted in our recycling facility.
Speaker:
So what do you do with it?
Speaker:
And that's a very specific example, but it is something
Speaker:
that came up the last time I met with local
Speaker:
wineries that are in IWCA, on how are people coming
Speaker:
up with these solutions. So I think there's a lot
Speaker:
of power in just talking with other people in your
Speaker:
industry and sharing ideas. And then from that, change really
Speaker:
is, you can help drive change forward.
Speaker:
I mean, wine is not just a product and a
Speaker:
bottom line, but it's something emotionally important to people that
Speaker:
evokes a lot of strong feelings.
Speaker:
I come from a wine growing family in a wine
Speaker:
growing region, I grew up in the town of Sonoma,
Speaker:
went to high school in Napa, studied wine and climate
Speaker:
change for my PhD. So it's something near and dear
Speaker:
to my heart, wine. I chose to study wine because
Speaker:
it's climate change that you can taste, and that is
Speaker:
becoming more and more of a lived reality for people
Speaker:
growing and enjoying wine. So I wondered how it feels
Speaker:
to work in an industry that's so affected by climate change.
Speaker:
It is challenging, and I think fulfilling, all at the
Speaker:
same time, right? Because, as you say, we're very affected
Speaker:
by Mother Nature and just weather patterns in general.
Speaker:
Heat and drought really affect grapes and how you farm,
Speaker:
and how you're making picking decisions, and it really impacts
Speaker:
all aspects of the business. And so I think it
Speaker:
makes some of the work in sustainability a little bit
Speaker:
higher stakes, right, because we want to be resilient as
Speaker:
a business, we want to continue farming the land that
Speaker:
we have. Vineyards tend to be in the ground for
Speaker:
25 to 30 years, so these are kind of long
Speaker:
term perennial crops that we need to take care of.
Speaker:
And we want our farms to be resilient to all
Speaker:
the changes that we've experienced, and, as you said, that's
Speaker:
gotten more intense over even the last 10 years, kind
Speaker:
of watching these heat domes and drought and fire impact
Speaker:
our operations. So I think it makes the work that
Speaker:
we do in sustainability, and also just the work of
Speaker:
Jackson Family Wines in general, more important, to be more
Speaker:
resilient today, so that we have a crop, this harvest.
Speaker:
Yeah, and how about, I mean, things have changed a
Speaker:
lot, both in the lived experience, the felt impacts of
Speaker:
climate change, human caused climate change affecting daily lives and
Speaker:
wine growing, as well as the momentum, the momentum for
Speaker:
climate action was very different back in 2019, when Jackson
Speaker:
Family Wines co-founded International Wineries for Climate Action.
Speaker:
How is it feeling now to be trying to lead
Speaker:
climate action in the wine industry?
Speaker:
What has changed?
Speaker:
It's a great question. I think there has been a
Speaker:
shift in terms of how the world is approaching climate
Speaker:
action, that has made things more challenging.
Speaker:
Grant funding is harder to come by, federal support and
Speaker:
things like that can be more challenging today than they
Speaker:
were in 2019. And so I think really where that
Speaker:
has taken us is just looking at sustainability solutions that
Speaker:
are also profitable business decisions in the short term, until
Speaker:
we can find some external grant funding to help.
Speaker:
It's really looking at projects that will decrease costs and
Speaker:
also move the needle on sustainability.
Speaker:
And I think that there are a lot out there.
Speaker:
I think reducing our energy use, our grid electricity, is
Speaker:
an easy one to pinpoint on, if we use less
Speaker:
electricity our electricity bills are lower and our footprint is
Speaker:
lower. And so I think it's really just been kind
Speaker:
of a shift in focus, to try to look for
Speaker:
those projects that can also help with the business needs
Speaker:
in the short term.
Speaker:
And what keeps you going?
Speaker:
I think the thing that is so wonderful about working
Speaker:
in wine is, as you said earlier, that wine, it's
Speaker:
a product that brings people together.
Speaker:
It's more than just a beverage, you have it at
Speaker:
dinner, you have it to celebrate special occasions.
Speaker:
And it's really just a wonderful industry and a wonderful
Speaker:
piece of enjoyment. And so really trying to make sure
Speaker:
that the wine industry is resilient and can continue providing
Speaker:
that to people is really what excites me, I think.
Speaker:
Well, starting to wrap things up, what's next on the
Speaker:
agenda at Jackson Family Wines in terms of climate action
Speaker:
and reducing emissions?
Speaker:
Yeah, so we, this past year, we had a number
Speaker:
of new solar arrays come online.
Speaker:
We have now 14 million kilowatt hours of solar arrays
Speaker:
on our roofs. And so I think our next step
Speaker:
in terms of renewable energy is really just making sure
Speaker:
that we're using that solar most efficiently and not sending
Speaker:
it back to the grid. How do we use all
Speaker:
the solar that we're generating? That's kind of the next
Speaker:
evolution of our solar journey. In terms of our packaging
Speaker:
emissions, we're just continuing to lightweight, where we are investigating
Speaker:
alternative packages, how do we continue to drive that forward.
Speaker:
And we're always really just looking, what is the next
Speaker:
technology that will help us, I think there's a lot
Speaker:
of vetting that happens in sustainability teams, I'm like, could
Speaker:
this fit in our business well, and just really kind
Speaker:
of keeping your eye ahead for the new technologies that
Speaker:
will really help us advance.
Speaker:
And what about in the broader scope of the wine
Speaker:
industry? So looking at your supplier emissions, for example, is
Speaker:
there anything you're able to commit to in terms of
Speaker:
next steps, trying to bring the whole industry along with
Speaker:
you, and solve some of these challenges that you've faced
Speaker:
in trying to get your input emissions down, to help
Speaker:
you meet your climate goals?
Speaker:
I think one of the things that's really important with
Speaker:
our input emissions is really just building relationships with our
Speaker:
suppliers and continuing to encourage them to adopt more green
Speaker:
technology. I think one of the things that's on the
Speaker:
horizon for glass manufacturers is kind of hybrid and electric
Speaker:
furnaces for glass manufacturing. The technology is really advanced there.
Speaker:
One of the challenges that that industry faces is that
Speaker:
those pieces of equipment are very expensive.
Speaker:
And so generally, you have to wait until your current
Speaker:
furnace is at the end of its life before you're
Speaker:
going to replace a furnace. But once you are in
Speaker:
the position to replace your furnace, just a big, heavy
Speaker:
push on going either hybrid or electric.
Speaker:
So I think we are going to see some positive
Speaker:
change by working with our suppliers and trying to encourage
Speaker:
some of those changes. It's just some of these things
Speaker:
tend to take time. And, that is sometimes time that
Speaker:
we don't have in terms of the climate, but just
Speaker:
trying to encourage these changes fast.
Speaker:
It would be great to see that written into your
Speaker:
contracts, for example, or find other ways of really not
Speaker:
just encouraging, but making it a requirement, to bring these
Speaker:
other companies with you, because it feels hard to do
Speaker:
with just positive incentives, that's not always enough.
Speaker:
It is, it is challenging. And I think a sustainable
Speaker:
purchasing policy, like you're talking about, it's something that we've
Speaker:
talked about, it's not something we have enacted yet, but
Speaker:
I think that is probably a direction where we're headed.
Speaker:
It's been great to talk with you.
Speaker:
It's great to hear from a company that is really
Speaker:
committed to reducing emissions, cutting carbon pollution in half by
Speaker:
2030. Emissions are still going up, which is true for
Speaker:
most countries and most companies still.
Speaker:
So you're really where the rubber hits the road right
Speaker:
now, in terms of all the hard work that needs
Speaker:
to happen to align action with these great targets.
Speaker:
But it seems like you've got a lot of the
Speaker:
pieces in place, and you need to keep pushing, because
Speaker:
we really want to keep having our wine in the
Speaker:
future, and we need it to survive the climate crisis
Speaker:
and to enjoy what our beautiful landscapes can produce.
Speaker:
So thank you for the work that you're doing, and
Speaker:
thanks so much for joining us today.
Speaker:
Absolutely, thank you for having me.
Speaker:
We're talking to you because you represent climate community.
Speaker:
So that's the most powerful role model action in the
Speaker:
SHIFT guide, the climate action guide that we've put together.
Speaker:
Collective action, like wanting to do something about it.
Speaker:
We knit and create physical representations of climate data.
Speaker:
People often will have knit-togethers and come and work on them collectively.
Speaker:
22 feet long. I am holding up a roll of
Speaker:
knitted fabric and it’s global deviation from average temperatures from
Speaker:
the year 1 to 2021.